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 Major Battles During Book's Period

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LichenDragon
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:14 pm

Social Issues, these clans are clans aren't they? they have different religions, customs, views, opinions, superstitions. One man's blessing is another's witchcraft.

Full access to land, How would you like it if you have to go through a long hard process of getting what little land there is if you can just invade or buy it off and do with it what ever you want?

Competition, castles, ports, roads, aqueducts, ....

Complete control, If your ally starts a war with someone else and that someone else wants to cut off their supply and trade, they go and block off and invade the shared territory.

Being the best is survival. There's a reason Monopolies do so well.



And IQ's are formed overtime and I can hardly expect Xen'Vi to overtake humans so much. Anyways, it doesn't matter how smart you are. Smart people just take over in smarter ways.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:06 am

Okay, let's try again...

Quote :
Even non-sentients wage wars. Chimps wage wars, and they aren't sentient.
Look, the logic of speacies is to survive. Look at Bacteria, they have been around longer then any life form, but they aren't sentient. If you look at non- sentient and sentient beings, their goal is to become dominant.
Think about this, sentientiance, in my opinion is a "virus" that causes creatures to want to become dominant. Creatures that get intelligence always want domination. Wolfs, birds, primates, and many other animals fight for domination. It makes sense that a speacies with a lanquage, goverment, housing, etc. would have wars
I can argue to this in three points:

A) I never said only sentience... *Rolls Eyes*

B.) They fight, yes. The fight for survival is evident in nearly all living things. I never denied that. HOWEVER, is it a biological necessity to have more than you need? Though it is seen that, for instance, tigers will kill as much prey as possible, even much more than they along could possibly consume, if a lot is readily available. Ie. Put a tiger in a room filled with hundreds of rats and see what happens. BUT that is because it's the way the tiger is programmed. Now I ask again: Is it essencial to the creatures survival? When sentience is taken into acount, and the choice is there, is it really logically essencial to a nation's survival to steal land from another, even if that other nation has done nothing against you? The Aari are not Europe.

C) Chimps are pretty close to sentience, you know. Neutral

Quote :
Social Issues, these clans are clans aren't they? they have different religions, customs, views, opinions, superstitions. One man's blessing is another's witchcraft.
Haven't we already gone over the religion thing? And how does this really apply to your arguement?

Quote :
Full access to land, How would you like it if you have to go through a long hard process of getting what little land there is if you can just invade or buy it off and do with it what ever you want?
Dude, the Aari are ocean-based.

Quote :
Competition, castles, ports, roads, aqueducts, ....
See above statement.

Quote :
Complete control, If your ally starts a war with someone else and that someone else wants to cut off their supply and trade, they go and block off and invade the shared territory.
Isn't that just as good as them attacking any other of that nations' territory? For that matter, isn't that just as good as blocking off a trade route? If the ally nations sort of mingle into one another where they meet, then its double the defence at the shared territory. Besides, would the enemy nation really want to risk going to was with two nations, one of which has near complete dominance over the seas?

Quote :
Being the best is survival. There's a reason Monopolies do so well.
Don't they monopolise over trade and sea-faring already? *Rolls Eyes*

Quote :
And IQ's are formed overtime and I can hardly expect Xen'Vi to overtake humans so much. Anyways, it doesn't matter how smart you are. Smart people just take over in smarter ways.
I said EQ. As in Emotional Quantity. Also known as social wisdom. The Xen'vi are generally a lot more considerate than humans.



Guys, this is not Earth, these are not humans and this is no longer debatable. The Aari share the territory they have on the coastlines of their allies. That will not change no matter what you say.

I will now ask you to stop this pointless arguement unless you have an exceedingly great point to make.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:07 pm

Pickles.



Beat that argument.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:20 pm

ok, i'll stop. I just think it's to unrealistic to have a nation that NEVER want war.
I assume that the xen'vi will continue to build more technology and eventually make weapons designed for killing.
Oh and when you said "Why would you attack someone who hasen't done anything to you? Well think about nature. A seal eats a fish, killing it. Did the fish do anything to the seal? No.

Just my thoughts
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:36 pm

How many have died because they were different from another? A lot.

They have to get supplies, and build their ships.

Protect and supply your ports... Because it's much more efficient and cheaper to get stuff from land...

Obviously you have empires that will go to war with everyone. Mongols, French, Germans, Iga'Vi.

They can't blot out other people's trade. Even with naval dominance it doesn't make multiple trade empires impossible.

Hate to go kinder-gardener but why?

Mostly to wrap that up. I guess the debate is done but I have been enjoying it. And there are (to me) predictable qualifications to civilization building species. There are only so many social circumstances that would make super intelligence a good move.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:22 pm

Yeah, what do they build their ships with? Must be somthing on land. What do they trade? Must be on land. As resources dwindle i would imagine wars would break out.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:22 pm

Kelp like trees that grow underwater. Come on people think outside those things you call minds.

I also think both sides are biased as you are both Humans, there fore neither able to argue with or against the morals of the Xen' vi.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:27 am

yeah. Its just hard to imagine a race without wars. I can imagine almost everything else including xenobiology though....
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:22 am

A) Thanks you, Balu. And happy belated brithday! Very Happy


B) I NEVER said they NEVER want war. GUYS. The point of that arguement was that the Aari share the territory outside of their true territory with the nations that it originally belonged to. *Rolls Eyes*


C) The seal kills the fish because it needs to eat. Circumstancial paradox solved. On the other hand, let me give you guys a bit of history. For, like, ever, Aari have had really good trading relations with Svia and Jay, eventually leading to mutual relations towards those two clans. It's thus not that hard to imagine populace of the clans moving into each other's territories. Now, as you guys have been pointing out, they need land for resaurces, ship building, etc. Now, what is easiest/best sollution? Take the land from your allies (who supply you with a lot of things you've become dependant uppon) or move into their land? Thought Come on, guys, really. Neutral


D) In future, may I make a suggestion for these kinda arguements? I'll add it to the forum guidelines, if you guys agree:

If you have a problem with something in the LiA canon, instead of argueing against it, tell us your thoughts. Then, without having a sided debate that ends in averyone (Ie. me) being angry, let's constructively try to find a mutual compramise. Eg. Say noe something makes no sense at all, attempt to change the circumstances that would make whatever not make sense a little in your mind so that it can make sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:04 am

Taking their allies land.... how? By war? Moving into allies land.... how? by war.
Im NOT arqueing i'm just saying.
Besides isn't this forum for us to discuss and express our thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:10 pm

Well moving in is actualy probably inevitable with a mix of cultures. But governmental reasons make it difficult for shared territory. Taxes, laws and governmental policies.

And they're still going to be cultural problems. Any animal will hate anything strange. That leaf look a bit strange? It's an adder. That grass looking a bit flattened and strange? Lion crouched in it.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:21 pm

To cultures that are just different enough to be considered so cannot coexist in the same place. They may mix, diffuse, etc, but they will NEVER inhabit the same area. This is true for governments, and water and oil as well. Else the only consequence is war. It is true for all species.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:29 pm

^ that ^


It's the strangeness and lack of unity and lack of control. These all say destroy the other thing. They're all traits needed by all or all social animals for survival.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:07 am

Galactic: Moving into allies land. How? By mutual agreement. Nation A: I need land... Nation B: You need land? Well, we've got plenty! Nation A: Thank you, ally. *Moves in*

And yes, you can express your thoughts. BUT ONCE IS ENOUGH IF I'VE ALREADY SAID NO!



Lichen: Stop using humans as a template for the Xen'vi. And only Valiero'vi and Iga'vi use tax.



Balu: Let's look at the Jay and Aari as an example. Really long ago, they begin trading with one another. Trading of knowlage and ideas also takes place. Pretty soon, they are allies with views that are pretty much equal. Since they border on one another, and basically have a fused economy due to a trading relationship that has grown and grown for over two centuries, they sorta just flow into one another at the edges. It really isn't that hard to concieve.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:09 am

They're like client states then?

And I guess I'll stop before you get really enraged.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:21 am

i really don't think a differnt culture can move into an allies land. Unless your talking about emigration.....
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:54 pm

It's just at the coast as well.

Let me put it this way: Aari needs more land to build ports on, ally allows them to build cities on their coasts.

Really, what harm can come from that?
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:24 pm

Simplified into that it sounds good, if you interpret "allowing" meaning giving some land to Aari'Vi.

In the way you put it here (Your post) I'm completely fine with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:52 pm

Maybe the Aari "pay" cuurency to get this land?
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:21 am

I guess that would be realistic.



Has the dispute ended?
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:09 am

So... They don't really have defined borders between their allies? Perhaps?
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:35 am

Arg! This dispute is starting to hurt.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:32 pm

Nope. Why would there need to be set borders between allies?

Don't get me wrong, it's not like the nations just spread into infinity without any outlines. There are "borderlands" between ally nations aswell, where the nations sorta mingle into one another.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:23 pm

The Xen'vi seem to have very little concept of greed. This is highly improbable.
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PostSubject: Re: Major Battles During Book's Period   Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:49 am

Agreed.
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